So.. now I need to hit the bubble the moment someone gets shot else they're going to die :) Pretty bloody out there for creeps, feels a lot worse than a 10% mitigation debuff, guess their armor and weapon increases were more than I expected.
It's feeling like SoA now with how much it takes to kill a freep and how many of us we trade for that one freep!
Hm interesting, I haven't changed anything since update -- in fact I didn't even realize there were new corruptions until this thread (please politely fake your shock at my ignorance)! What's interesting is I don't seem to blow up with crits at all and I just have the same two crit protects I ran before. I guess like Louis Tully I'm just a fortunate individual, I can give a sample of my brain tissue if it will help.
5,422 Crit Hit avoidance
Melee Crit defense - 6,932 - reduce melee crits by 17.7%, reduce devastation by 6.5%
same numbers on ranged and tactical.
From what i'm hearing is that freeps are easily breaking 20% crit rate with the right builds, so because mitigations are subtractive, if they have 20%, they only have a 3.3% chance of critting on me (besides the auto crits... grrr). But my thought is that it's the devastation which is the worst part and the biggest hits. I have no numbers, but 5% devastation rate was terrific in Mirkwood, so with whatever it's at now, a subtraction of 6.5% will reduce those hits to once in a blue moon.
(no stances or buffs activated)
Well that confirms my suspicions -- rank has something to do with the numbers.
With 4x Crit avoidance, my Warleader has 5,432 points worth 15.3% crit avoidance, 5.2% devestating avoidance.
The raw number is the same but the percentage varies. <3
5,422 Crit Hit avoidance
Melee Crit defense - 6,932 - reduce melee crits by 17.7%, reduce devastation by 6.5%
same numbers on ranged and tactical.
From what i'm hearing is that freeps are easily breaking 20% crit rate with the right builds, so because mitigations are subtractive, if they have 20%, they only have a 3.3% chance of critting on me (besides the auto crits... grrr). But my thought is that it's the devastation which is the worst part and the biggest hits. I have no numbers, but 5% devastation rate was terrific in Mirkwood, so with whatever it's at now, a subtraction of 6.5% will reduce those hits to once in a blue moon.
(no stances or buffs activated)
I've toyed with the idea of going away from my 4 crit protection, HfP2, HfD2, but I get shot up way too much to not concentrate on massive defense. The only way that other healers will bubble/heal me in time is that I don't get massively critted. Additionally my thought pattern is that it's easier to max me back up with a smaller health pool that is sturdier, vs a max health build which is 3k more..... but that's just one crit away.
I'm super curious at your rank what kind of grand total your crit protection looks like with 4 of those traited. Care to share?
YMMV based on rank, class and preference of playstyle.
I play my 3 main creeps (BA, reaver, WL) the same way: as a suicidal minion of Sauron.
Math is hard, but I'll start testing re-traits tonight.
I've toyed with the idea of going away from my 4 crit protection, HfP2, HfD2, but I get shot up way too much to not concentrate on massive defense. The only way that other healers will bubble/heal me in time is that I don't get massively critted. Additionally my thought pattern is that it's easier to max me back up with a smaller health pool that is sturdier, vs a max health build which is 3k more..... but that's just one crit away.
I did some math on this at R8 with my WL (which is now R9 so the numbers are slightly off) but it appears to me that the best bang for your buck (as long as you have a healing skill to use, like Get A Grip!) is to slot
1x Critical Avoidance
2x Mastery
1x HfDR2
1x HfPR2
1x DfPR2
End result at rank 9 (assuming NO stance is in use):
Crit prot: 10.8%
Crack the Whip: 1,353.7 healing
Quitters Never Win/Get a Grip!: 3,298.8 to 4,712.6 healing
Black Speech: 669 Shadow damage
Some notes about the corruption types:
YMMV based on rank, class and preference of playstyle.
I've been having an issue with - even stacking Crit Protection - recieving ridiculous devs from Champs and Hunters (I suppose I'm just used to the RK crits now). I walked into a n00b group of freeps yesterday with a WL and defiler in my group and before anyone realized what happened I was dead. The champ hit me for 700 to start, then I got a 4k hit from the RK, and then the champ's 2nd hit critted for 7.2k. 3 hits and I was dead with buffs and Crit protection triple-stacked. Also, both Elkeon and Knucles have hit me so hard with HS that it doesn't even register in my combat log (once with Reveal Weakness while fighting a burg, still with 10k health, Knucles essentially 1-shotted me to death). 90% of hunters can't HS me for more than 1.5k, but the other 10% are averaging about 7k. Even without Moving Target no hunter stands a chance vs. a BA in a straight-up 1v1, but now I gotta watch for that HS crosshair while I'm in the middle of fighting others.
I'm tempted to re-trait for for morale (I am all damage currently so I sit at only 12k morale), but most of my non-Champ/Guard/Burg 1v1s are so ridiulously in my favor that I'm not sure it's worth it. Plus, I really don't mind dying as long as others are finishing my kills.
That's why I just avoid crit protection traits. They're pointless.
First, most freep classes once geared are at or very near the 25% crit cap now (they made crit rating MUCH cheaper in terms of stat budget on items in U5).
Second, most classes have a way to get one or more skills to have an abnormally high crit chance or even a guaranteed critical.
That champ crit on you? That was seeking blades + remoresless strike. 100% crit chance on a skill that has an ABSURDLY high crit magnitude + a legacy that makes that magnitude even higher. Cooldown on the guaranteed crit? 2 minutes.
I've been having an issue with - even stacking Crit Protection - recieving ridiculous devs from Champs and Hunters (I suppose I'm just used to the RK crits now). I walked into a n00b group of freeps yesterday with a WL and defiler in my group and before anyone realized what happened I was dead. The champ hit me for 700 to start, then I got a 4k hit from the RK, and then the champ's 2nd hit critted for 7.2k. 3 hits and I was dead with buffs and Crit protection triple-stacked. Also, both Elkeon and Knucles have hit me so hard with HS that it doesn't even register in my combat log (once with Reveal Weakness while fighting a burg, still with 10k health, Knucles essentially 1-shotted me to death). 90% of hunters can't HS me for more than 1.5k, but the other 10% are averaging about 7k. Even without Moving Target no hunter stands a chance vs. a BA in a straight-up 1v1, but now I gotta watch for that HS crosshair while I'm in the middle of fighting others.
I'm tempted to re-trait for for morale (I am all damage currently so I sit at only 12k morale), but most of my non-Champ/Guard/Burg 1v1s are so ridiulously in my favor that I'm not sure it's worth it. Plus, I really don't mind dying as long as others are finishing my kills.
Wow. Nerf BA's more just because a complete disparity would be more ideal (for the freeps).
wait... wtf, do freeps actually hit that hard now? I was seeing multiple 2k-3k crits plus the regular shots hitting for 700+ ><.
Yeah, betweent he mit bug and the gear scaling this update it's pretty hilarious to read your combat log.
I more or less have completely stopped ambushing this update, there's little point to it.
wait... wtf, do freeps actually hit that hard now? I was seeing multiple 2k-3k crits plus the regular shots hitting for 700+ ><.
thats crazy... kinda makes me wanna come back and play my hunter :X
LoL was wondering how long it would take someone to realize the interaction with that set bonus + blue line capstone.
This looks pretty rough too.
Good proactive defilers (HOTs need to be rolling BEFORE the big damage hits) are amazing out there. Two defilers per group? That's 2x effloresence ticking on everyone, pretty good. Unless the freeps are on top of their target assist, they will have trouble with that.
Remember how bad the freeps got at sticking to target assists after book 6 moria? Once they got used to being able to just take their own target down without help, they must have spent months flailing around splitting their DPS. Suspect we'll see some of that between the newer faces out there and how EASY we are to burn down when we aren't raided up with good healers.
I think the only reason my group did so well last night was with 10 creeps, we had 4 defilers and 2 warleaders!
Yes we have been getting our ass kicked the last few weeks. Not many creeps online, or at least creeps in TS, so it's been very hard to coordinate amongst creeps. Plus, the freeps love their minnie/champ/cappie groups which makes them almost impossible to kill with a lot of the noob creeps that have been playing lately. We actually kicked their ass pretty good last night Vyxe after you logged. They avoided fighting us after a few wipes and flipped a lot of the map, but we wiped them at Lug and they decided to leave so we took everything back, felt like the old days for once running with 3/4 of a creep raid.
If you can get them down, blowing up a minnie or 2 in the beginning is the way to go. Hunters and rk's have been difficult to drop 1st b/c of all the healing, unless they are not in the raid. Once we get down a few minnies, we have been exploding their ranged and rk's easy and then we focus on captains. That's what led to our wipes last night. It's a good strategy, but takes forever to work and you need healing in your group to keep up with theirs.
My shorts stints playing WL has worked out pretty well in the bubble dept - but maybe I'm not playing at times with intense freep focus ability?
I really don't mind the mitigation issues or anything like that - given a long enough timeline creeps will always come out on top because freeps despise dying and will log once that happens a few times. My real beef is that with our mitigation bug and freeps having often overwhleming numbers they still sit in NPCs and/or drop-pull keeps. It makes decent PvMP pretty hard, especially since very few creeps are following Trade targets and instead love to focus those bubbling champs and pledging guardians 
Still, I like being the underdog. I haven't seen much raid v raid action but I'll keep an eye on the Status Box and log in if there's a BAOS raid going on.
And as an aside: I played the other day in EST AM period for the first time in months. W.T.F. It was awful. I'm confident that even the worst freeps from SoA days would be telling the likes of Aink, Kio, and Alchain (and others I'm forgetting names) how awful they play. Not sure why creeps continue fighting that crap when all they do is solo zerg, NPC hug, wait for cooldowns, and opt for a rez camp. It's much more fun to find a straggler on the map, kill it, and then spend the next 5 minutes evading the freep callout - rinse and repeat.
Yea trying to bubble someone who is taking damage is like trying to take a fat kid away from cake. Its not possible to save them!
ROFL.
Caek, why are you trying to take cake away from fat kids? You're just mean :(
I just am happy things are picking up as I got worried the first week of TOR the place was absolutely dead. I logged on a few times and was the only BAOS guy on, lol
Yea trying to bubble someone who is taking damage is like trying to take a fat kid away from cake. Its not possible to save them!
Pfft, i'm happy nowadays when I get a bubble off in time to save ANYONE
Yeah, I find that for raid vs raid, you want 3 morale traits + 3 phyiscal mitigation traits (for a spider at least). Traitwise, survival and utility. Armor boost, health boost, Improved paralytic, Clinging webs, Strong Brood and free slot. In free slot, trait what you want unless you own improved combat burrow in which case SLOT IT SLOT IT SLOT IT).
Note to warleaders: PLEASE save your bubbles for reavers if at all possible. We can burrow. Reavers cannot. Reavers can DPS. We cannot. Spiders are going to die in DROVES this book, We're used to it.
hmm. looks like fun when i come back from vacation
I'm thinking all weavers need to take off their DPS and go full resist and T2 morale. stay alive as much as possible. the strat that worked before we hit Xmas vacation was figuring out who the target assist was and call it out to push heals
Weavers will need to stay out of the fray and in the back lines to be effective. DPS will no longer be viable for them and they will need to let the BAs and Reavers do the main damage and have weavers as backup ranged damage. Rank 9+ weavers should trait feast to have as much WtE and mezzes as possble. (feast resets WtE, Daze, and roots). Rank 10+ weavers will have to be on their game with their fears. working the healing with their CC, and working the melee with fears and melee stuns as much as possible.
Yea the other night when I logged in was crazy as hell with everyone dying. Try as I might, we had to wait for numbers to die down before we could really do much of anything out there outside of the NPCs
Yipes! Well, on the upside, it will encourage more Freeps to come out and play. It's been kinda dead out there the past couple of months.
PS-Skyrim was a blast, but I'm done with it. See you back in the Moors tonight!
Actually the two classes I think I need the most out there are defilers and weavers. Weavers are critical on the defense with Web the Earth (and for offensive trapping situation) as well as minstrel shutdown or at least harrassment. Defiler fears and the blight debuff are much missed, as well as their HoTs as the warleaders are harrassed to pieces with indestructable burgs and wardens. Basically i've been sadly running Brawler stance nearly 100% of the time to just get off instant heals (between the instant AoE and power of fear heals)
No doubt every creep class has a significant role to play in the moors - it's just really rough on some of them right now. I know as a defiler in a raid, I feel almost useless as far as healing goes. In a small group vs. small group scenario, they really shine.
Weavers are just blowing up left and right, poor things.
I agree with you: the treadmill strat is pretty much the only thing we can do to survive a bit longer: get in, get out.
I hope Turbine fires off a hotfix/patch real soon. Dying so quickly is getting a bit old.
Lube helps ;p